will Ngui become obsolete?

[super-cypher]

so i not long ago bought Ngui, only to find out shortly after that the new Gui system coming in unity5 is the next Ngui that comes for free, and its even done by you ArenMook! so whats the deal with Ngui? what will happen to it and why do i need to buy it if unity 5 is being released probably within weeks with a better free version that you yourself have made and said is way better than NGui?

Please can you clear up where we stand?

thanks

[wallabie]

Correct me if I am wrong,

I had the same confusion around the NGUI and Unity GUI system.  I also thought it was the same but it's really not.

ArenMook was hired by Unity to be a part of  the new Unity Gui to help design the new system.
After one year, his services expired.  The current unity GUI has similar ideas as NGUI but definitely is not the same.
Unity's new GUI is much more integrated with unity.  From the video recently released by unity, it's very powerful and uses native unity sprite system in addition to many more ideas that is only from Unity.  In short, Unity Gui is similar to NGUI but definitely is not the work by ArenMook.  NGUI is a one man team whereas Unity's GUI was made by the Unity Team and backed by QA department.  However, the strength and weaknesses of both system has yet to be determined.   

For self protection, it's good to design one's app so that it's easy to switch in/out Gui systems.
 

[ArenMook]

Yup, you're right on all counts, wallabie. I joined Unity to help them out and point them in the right direction. I didn't author uGUI. I merely contributed to it.

[Nicki]

Also Unity5 is not coming out in a few weeks - 4.6 is the next one up with uGUI in it. Unity5 is still some way off.

[super-cypher]

Yup, you're right on all counts, wallabie. I joined Unity to help them out and point them in the right direction. I didn't author uGUI. I merely contributed to it.

what i don't get is why you would help unity make a GUI system that's in direct competition to yours? how does that make any sort of good business sense? or any sort of sense? you are just hurting yourself, unless there is more to it than you are letting on?

other devs that i have spoken to also think this. one also suggested you were bought out by unity...?

[super-cypher]

Also Unity5 is not coming out in a few weeks - 4.6 is the next one up with uGUI in it. Unity5 is still some way off.

actually no one knows when 5 will be released unless you work at unity. "the summer" which it is now is the best you will get, so it could well be 'within weeks'.

i also read that unity have said that 4.6 has no bearing on unity 5 release, 5 will be released and then 4.6 could come after or before makes no difference, whatever suits them.

[wallabie]

Please correct again if I'm wrong.

I cannot speak for ArenMook but I think that when Unity was rebooting their GUI system, they looked at the most popular option at that time and it happened to be NGUI.   It then makes sense to make the new Gui system so that it's something that most people are used to using.  This way the migration process is smoother. 

At that time, NGUI was very different then it is today.  It was a different animal, much inferior to what it is today.  The architecture is not nearly as mature.  When ArenMook joined the Unity Gui team, many GUI systems were analyzed and the best features were taken into account in order to design the new GUI.  One can also see that the brainstorming and contributions from the Unity GUI team has positively affected how NGUI has grown.  One can say that NGUI today is a result of the contributions from Unity.  So to say that ArenMook helped Unity to make NGUI obsolete is not quite right.   

It's more like, Unity got some ideas from NGUI and in return, NGUI got lots of ideas from Unity. 

Furthermore, if NGUI didn't contribute the initial ideas, it would not have made such a big difference because Unity's Gui team was determined to create an awesome GUI system anyways because they lost face with the series of Gui reboots.  They really want to get this one right this time.  It's a matter of personal pride with the unity founders.   

[super-cypher]

Please correct again if I'm wrong.

I cannot speak for ArenMook but I think that when Unity was rebooting their GUI system, they looked at the most popular option at that time and it happened to be NGUI.   It then makes sense to make the new Gui system so that it's something that most people are used to using.  This way the migration process is smoother. 

At that time, NGUI was very different then it is today.  It was a different animal, much inferior to what it is today.  The architecture is not nearly as mature.  When ArenMook joined the Unity Gui team, many GUI systems were analyzed and the best features were taken into account in order to design the new GUI.  One can also see that the brainstorming and contributions from the Unity GUI team has positively affected how NGUI has grown.  One can say that NGUI today is a result of the contributions from Unity.  So to say that ArenMook helped Unity to make NGUI obsolete is not quite right.   

It's more like, Unity got some ideas from NGUI and in return, NGUI got lots of ideas from Unity. 

Furthermore, if NGUI didn't contribute the initial ideas, it would not have made such a big difference because Unity's Gui team was determined to create an awesome GUI system anyways because they lost face with the series of Gui reboots.  They really want to get this one right this time.  It's a matter of personal pride with the unity founders.   

hi

sorry but that doesn't make any sense at all. i watched the speech by ArenMook and he said 'himself' (and on this forum) that he practically wrote the entire Unity gui, its 'his'. and he says himself it is way better than Ngui please go watch the youtube vid and read this forum, and the youtube vid is only from the end of last year i think.

so my question stands, why on earth would he help make a competitions product better than your own? And so my first question remains, why have i and a hell of a lot of other people just spent money on a product that the owner says himself is inferior to the one he just helped make for the competition that will be given away for FREE?

he even lists all the flaws in NGUI and says unity gui will get rid of them all, dynamic fonts that dont work in Ngui for one example, and depth issues etc all fixed in unity Gui

dont get me wrong, i like what ive seen of ngui so far, i just dont want to waste money or feel like ive been cheated out of it.

cheers.

[wallabie]

"i watched the speech by ArenMook and he said 'himself' (and on this forum) that he practically wrote the entire Unity gui, its 'his'. and he says himself it is way better than Ngui "

I believe that ArenMook has stated in this thread that he was " Part of the Unity GUI team" and not written the entire thing.

[ArenMook]

I presented the uGUI solution at the last year's main Unite conference. I went over the issues in NGUI and acknowledged that they are addressed in the upcoming uGUI solution. I never said I wrote the system myself. uGUI originally was based off of NGUI (I took NGUI as the foundation around version 2.3 or so), but have branched off in a different direction -- especially in the months following the Unite conference. uGUI today is so different from NGUI that it may not even be apparent that they had common roots.

As for why I joined Unity to work on a competing solution... I've covered by reasons many times now in answers to similar posts. TLDR version: I like game dev, not support work.

P.S. @Wallabie: good post, but I wouldn't say that NGUI got lots of ideas from Unity. It would be more accurate to say that NGUI got lots of ideas from its community -- ideas that I kept putting on the backburner in 2013 while working on uGUI -- ideas that I finally had time for after my departure.

[super-cypher]

"i watched the speech by ArenMook and he said 'himself' (and on this forum) that he practically wrote the entire Unity gui, its 'his'. and he says himself it is way better than Ngui "

I believe that ArenMook has stated in this thread that he was " Part of the Unity GUI team" and not written the entire thing.

Not to be argumentative but...

http://www.tasharen.com/forum/index.php?topic=3484.0

ArenMook: "Nothing has been decided in regards to making it a pro-only feature, and I don't intend to compete with myself (all 3 solutions will be my UI systems after all). The only purpose of NGUI 3.0 would be to give current devs the ability to make UIs that will migrate easier to the next UI system months before the built-in solution is released."

?

and...

"With that said, as many of you know, my work at Unity involves the creation of the "next" UI system -- the followup to NGUI. In order for it to be as awesome as 'I' can make it, I have to make some compromises,"

not 'we' 'I'...can make it!


So if its the "follow up" to Ngui and its waay better and "awesome", how will Ngui 'not' become obsolete?

[ArenMook]

That's an old post created back when I was the sole developer of uGUI, many months before the Unite conference, and long before NGUI 3 was started.

I joined Unity to help out with the UI system, and while it may have started as a solo project, when I left there was an entire team working on it.

[super-cypher]

That's an old post created back when I was the sole developer of uGUI, many months before the Unite conference, and long before NGUI 3 was started.

I joined Unity to help out with the UI system, and while it may have started as a solo project, when I left there was an entire team working on it.

ok cool. so can you convince me why, i (and others of course) should buy Ngui when you helped to make the New free Unity GUI better than NGUI?

and i still dont get why you did that, it just makes no sense? you have the best selling asset on the asset store, so why would you help to kill it? you're obviously very clever, and thats just down right dumb. sorry to be harsh but it is. surely the obvious thing to do would be to make sure ngui is so good it wipes the floor with the new free version, but you did the exact opposite and made the free version better than your own paid for version??? you said you explained this previously but i cant find that, can you post a link where i can read your explanation for that?

[raydenuni]

Here is his post that should answer your questions:

http://www.tasharen.com/forum/index.php?topic=2126.0

[super-cypher]

Here is his post that should answer your questions:

http://www.tasharen.com/forum/index.php?topic=2126.0

Thanks! so all my suspicions have just been confirmed. Ngui 'will' become obsolete and ive just wasted my money. cheers Arenmook!

I think people should be made aware of all this on the asset store before they decide to buy it. Because i definitely wouldn't of bought it had i known all this before.